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Save on operating interest or invest in mutual funds?
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Big Ben
Posted 1/27/2024 10:05 (#10595884 - in reply to #10595680)
Subject: RE: Save on operating interest or invest in mutual funds?


Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA
Boone & Crockett - 1/27/2024 06:33

Kooiker - 1/27/2024 08:22

Boone & Crockett - 1/27/2024 08:13

Unless you are borrowing the money in the farm account and writing a check from the farm account for the boat how are they going to prove that is what the money was borrowed for?


In most cases it would work like this, farmer borrows money on his Corp LOC then writes a check from his corp to his personal account.    Then uses the money from his personal account to buy the boat.      In which case, the money is borrowed from the Corp LOC did not buy the boat, it paid wages or a distribution to the owner.     Both of which are completely legal to deduct interest for.      


Basically it goes back to the old saying that "nothing is paid for until its all paid for".    




Now, if you borrowed money for the boat and are writing the check to Al's Boat Emporium out of the Corp checking account, you probably better have consulted your CPA and have your ducks in a row.

If they choose the forensic accounting route, it won’t be hard for them to follow the money trail, starting with the purchase agreement, then all the activity immediately thereafter. I’m not an accountant, but have enough common sense to come to the conclusion I’m not gonna be able to keep my deduction in this situation. Actually, the boat deal could possibly qualify under the second home irs rules, as IIRC, if you can sleep and relieve yourself on the boat through its design, it qualifies a second home. But that’s a whole separate set of circumstances than the banker has laid out.]




If the money is borrowed against the Corp LOC and is paid to the personal account as payroll or a distribution, that is where the money trail starts and ends as far as it being a business expense.

What you do with the money after it is in your personal account would not matter.    Its not any different for yourself or an other employee.   You can borrow money to do payroll.


If you're running everything through one checking account (no business corp set up, just using a personal checking account for the farm) I could see things possibly getting sticky in an audit.

You could very well be right if structured in that manner. I’m not gonna argue about it. But the IRS may take the position if it looks, walks, and sounds like a duck, it’s a duck, that’s my point of contention. Then it’s your job to prove them wrong.




So it’s January and two farmers had a good year last year, after paying down all short and some long term debt are now each sitting on $300k cash they can use toward their $400k operating budget next year.

Both decide they’re going to buy a $50,000 boat in July. Farmer A sets aside $50,000 to buy the boat and borrows $150,000 in March and April to operate. Farmer B decides he wants to save a little interest and only borrows $100,000 in March and April. In July, B borrows another $50k against the operating line and buys the boat, while farmer A buys his boat with the money he held since January. Now it’s August and both guys have a $150,000 operating note and a new boat.

How would one be fraud and one not?


Edit: this question isn’t specifically addressed to B&C. Others please answer if you can explain the difference.








Edited by Big Ben 1/27/2024 10:19
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